WOW! WAS I WRONG!
Well, it's August 7th and I'm not a prophet...this link shows it to be the case. The gay pride parade in Jerusalem was cancelled due to the war. Apparently God didn't like the idea of the homosexuals marching around his favorite city and he didn't like the ideas of all those homosexuals getting global media attention in their efforts to mock him...so he caused a war to stop it. Now, nobody even remembers the stink that was caused only a few weeks ago. In fact, it's the 7th and I even forgot to check up on this story yesterday! Eeveryone is worried about Hizbullah, not the homosexuals. The gay pride folks were hoping that they eyes of the world would be upon them and that everyone would see their bold statement BUT, they got totally owned by the almighty. I cannot help but laugh out loud at the amazing timing of this skirmish with Lebanon.
Nebuchadnezzar was right on the money when he exclaimed:
"His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: "What have you done?" - Daniel 4:34-35
The Psalmist was equally right when he said:
"The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
"Let us break their chains," they say,
"and throw off their fetters."
The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them." - Psalm 2:2-4
"I know that the LORD is great,
that our Lord is greater than all gods.
The LORD does whatever pleases him,
in the heavens and on the earth,
in the seas and all their depths.
He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth;
he sends lightning with the rain
and brings out the wind from his storehouses.
He struck down the firstborn of Egypt,
the firstborn of men and animals.
He sent his signs and wonders into your midst, O Egypt,
against Pharaoh and all his servants.
He struck down many nations
and killed mighty kings-
Sihon king of the Amorites,
Og king of Bashan
and all the kings of Canaan-
and he gave their land as an inheritance,
an inheritance to his people Israel.
Your name, O LORD, endures forever,
your renown, O LORD, through all generations." - Psalm 135:5-13
And Isaiah spoke truth when he proclaimed:
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing. - Isaiah 40:21-23
God - 1
Gays - 0
Did they think God would take this sitting down? Not even close. Until Next Time,
The Armchair Theologian
posted by The Armchair Geek at 9:39 AM
14 Comments:
That sure was nice of God to murder all those innocent civilians in bombing campaigns in order to stop a few gay people from walking through the streets of Jerusalem. It really helps put things into perspective.
9:00 PM
Tell me, how exactly did God go about creating this war? Did he:
a) personally kidnap those Israeli soldiers?
b) possess an Hezbollah soldier, forcing him to kidnap?
c) use a voice from the air, burning bush, or some other physical manifestation to direct the Hezbollah to kidnap?
d) hijack the neuron firings in the brain of an Hezbollah soldier which produced the idea and the details to the kidnapping?
10:39 PM
It's funny how as soon as something as horrible as a war happens you have all sorts of excuses as to why God didn't create it....but you have no problem claiming that God stopped a Gay Pride parade because it is something that you believe to be wrong. Probably the most hypocritical view one could have. It's really sad that you think the deaths of innocent people in war are funny because it stopped a parade.
8:36 AM
lol. I'm more curious what the permission form looked like that YOU had to sign for God to be able to do anything. HA! Was it:
1. Pink?
2. Gold?
3. Blue?
4. White?
5. Duplicate?
6. Triplicate?
Or even better: How in the world would God ever even murder? How is that even possible? Please explain THAT for me...if you even REMOTELY understand the question.
8:37 AM
Armchair Theologian's question goes a little something like this (if my pea-brain can even REMOTELY understand the question): How can an all-powerful God commit a moral wrong when he has set the moral code? Or maybe to phrase it without a question: whatever God does is good, therefore God can commit any act without it being a moral wrong.
If we sit down and consider how preposterous this is, we realize we are now living under the reign of the most arbitrary God possible. What is black today is white tomorrow. The moon is now the sun. The killing of innocent people is now justice, just as long as it stops a gay parade.
The problem with this sort of extreme moral ambiguity is that it leaves open to interpretation every act possible. God becomes vengeful, hateful, wrathful, spiteful and arbitrary in his actions. But of course, whatever God does is right...
Does anyone else see a problem with this?
If I promise to do something and then break that promise, am I not committing a wrong? If God is the defender of the innocent, the poor, the downtrodden and the helpless, wouldn't it seem contrary to his nature to kill a thousand of them to reroute a parade? Is God so near-sighted that he would toss the Middle East into a tumultous war with little or no purpose greater than stealing the headlines away from a few homosexual individuals marching through Jerusalem?
He doesn't have to ask for my permission to do anything. He just has to live up to his promises. That, if nothing else, is what being God means.
Cynical in Saskatchewan
(I was tired of being just "Anonymous" since all the other anonymouses showed up!)
9:08 AM
Well, if you want to come out swinging and mocking, don't expect me to hold back buddy. I'll play ball as HARD as you desire to play ball.
You didn't understand the question. It's not that you have a pea-brain. You're brain is possibly huge and you're possibly the smartest man alive. None the less you still did exactly what I thought you'd do. But for the sake of doubt, in re-reading my question, I'm guessing you could have misunderstood; the question was admittedly not as clear as could be. I'll try to explain...
I wasn't asking about the morality of the idea; whether a 'good' God could actually do something 'bad'. I wasn't suggesting the problem of the moral paradox or anything like that. I was actually questioning the physical possibility of the suggested action.
In a Christian worldview, life doesn't just "happen" outside of God. God is intimately involved in life. The Bible teaches that life happens because God creates and sustains it. Things are alive because God gives them life.
"Murder" is the unlawful and wilful taking of a person's life. I'm guessing we can agree on the definition of murder...it's not that important to the argument.
It seems that you were hammering against the idea of God performing and act that is "unlawful" but I was more wondering about the actually possibility of the idea of God "taking" life.
If God sustains all life, from moment to moment, then something is alive ONLY as long as God sustains it. If God ceases to sustain that life the person/creature/plant/whatever dies. God doesn't take life...who would he take it from? The life doesn't belong to that which is alive. The life belongs to the one who gives it. All life belongs to and comes from God, and if he who gives life simply no longer gives life, he's not TAKING life. You can't take what's already yours; that's not even possible.
Here's an illustration:
If I have $50 and I borrow you $50, if I ask for my $50 back, I'm not stealing. Stealing would be the unlawful aquisition of that $50; taking it without permission. But it I, the owner of that $50, take it back from he who borrowed it, I'm simply taking back MY money. I haev legal right to that money so in re-aquiring it, there's no violation of law at all.
All life belongs to God and if God gives then you have life. If God stops giving, you no longer have life. God cannot unlawfully take life because it's already his; it's not even possible.
Does THAT help illumine the question more?
(With a Christian understanding of the nature of "life", the moral question cannot even apply to God.)
11:52 PM
I think you have some form of anger issues with church dude, and possibly a few Christians who hurt your feelings. I'm guessing that since people who claimed to 'love you' didn't, you're upset with God and trying to flex your rational muscles against him.
The true one is the Christ, not the Christians. Even if I'm a wicked bad hypocrite, that only verifies part of the Christian message:
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. - Romans 3:23
My hypocrisy only shows that I'm a sinful wretch, and I don't understand the gospel that I preach. That doesn't make the gospel untrue; that only shows that I'm a fool.
You seriously sound like you need a hug. I wish I could have been there for you when you did. I'm sorry I wasn't.
11:58 PM
ay karamba!
7:01 AM
That is some good deflection Mr. Armchair. You successfully avoided all criticism about your correlation of the war, the 1000+ dead civilians and the gay pride parade.
10:05 AM
Dear Anonymous,
You're hilarious, and just don't get it. The gay pride parade is cancelled because of a war, not that we know God started the war to stop the parade but that the parade is cancelled none the less. It almost sounds as though you think homosexuality should be right in God's eyes? Serioiusly, like God has to answer for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.
Now that you know God hates sin and homosexuality is one of those sins I suggest that we sit back, relax, maybe make some noodle salad or spinach puffs and then click on my name and have a laugh.
LOL
3:19 PM
Okay. You want answers from me but you refuse to give any. That's fine. I'll still play ball, even if every pitch is called 'foul'.
In your first post, you suggested that God murdered people. I'm guessing, from your lack of response, that you now agree with me that God could not possibly murder anyone, in the sense that he's done something unlawful. So now that's settled, let's move on.
How does God go about orchestrating any war? Let's examine an old testament passage of scripture: Isaiah 10:5-19. I won't post the entire passage here for the sake of brevity, but here's some main points:
1. Assyria attacked Israel and was willed with pride because of it's victory. Versue 7-9 suggest this and verse 12-13 declare it outright.
2. Although Assyria DID attack Israel and did dominate it, God ACTUALLY sent Assyria against Israel. Verse 5-6, as well as verse 15, declare this.
3. Assyria had it's OWN intention in it's military campaign against Israel; it sought to utterly destroy Israel. Verse 7 declares this.
4. God ALSO had his OWN intention in Assyria's military campaign; the judgement of idolatry. Verses 10-11 show this.
5. Although God 'wielded Assyria' as the club of his wrath, and that without sin or the corruption of the Assyrians' individual wills (or the nation's purpose), God also maintains his righteousness in judging their pride.
So, what does this suggest?
Well, I would submit that it suggests 3 things:
1. God is involved in military campaigns, somehow orchestrating nations against one another. (I wouldn't dare suggest that I know exactly HOW this is done; only that the Bible is clear that it IS done)
2. Nations make decisions and declare war freely, in the sense that they're uncoerced and morally responsible for their actions.
3. Behind an action, or military campaign, there are two seperate wills and purposes; God's will and the will of him who's acting. The person who's acting does things for a reason, with willful intent. God also orchestrates things with his OWN reasoning, and his own intent.
NOW, I'm guessing that you'll be just chomping at the bit to yell:
HOW the heck does GOD do that?
If you ADMIT that God orchestrates events (or whatever word you use), then he's pulling strings and man's free will is an illusion, right?
To which my response is:
I don't have to understand the mechanics of an operation to know that it IS occuring. I don't have a clue how my car works, but yet I know that I put in the key and it starts and I drive it.
Or on a more technical level, I don't have to understand the mechanics of conscious thought to admit it's reality. In fact, I doubt ANY doctor (or doctors) have comprehensively figured out the entire mechanics of thought, how the chemistry of the brain produces the abstract of consciousness. That's STILL a mystery to modern science.
We're admittedly MUCH closer to an understanding of it, but we're STILL a long way off.
That doesn't mean that we doubt that we're thinking. We just don't necessarily know exactly how everything works...but we know it does.
In like fashion, I admittely don't know how God's mechanics work. I don't know how there can be two active purposes and intentful wills in ONE action...but there is. The Bible speaks of such time after time.
The real question is "do you believe the Bible" or not...
No.
I won't soft pedal this...
The REAL question is "do you think you know more about the mechanics of God's operation than GOD knows about himself?"
Of course you don't. Either you take his word for it and trust that he's actually WAY smarter than us (everyone combined), or you don't trust him and instead pretend that you're smarter than him.
Sorry if you don't like that answer, but I hope you agree that I didn't deflect or dance around the bush. NOW, you owe me an answer:
1. How would God possibly murder?
2. Where did I say that the deaths of innocent people were funny?
Oh, and for the note, I never have suggested that God didn't have any involvement in a war. (Nothing happens outside his sovereign hand, and I don't pretend to understand the mechanics of how his sovereign hand works in/with/alongside/through men's freely willed hands.)
BUT, God's also NOT standing on the battlefield, pulling triggers either.
9:23 AM
"Assyria was FILLED with pride"...oops!
9:24 AM
Or, and I'm just throwing this out there, perhaps God didn't orchastrate the Israelite wars, but rather the Israelites invoked the name of God in order to justify their actions. As wild as that might seem....
Cause there really aren't any countries who have done that in the past...
And there isn't a country doing the same thing right now...
But I digress.
As for your claim that God cannot possibly murder, I'm not so sure you've created an open and shut case. While your statement about God supporting all life certainly has merit (God as the source and ground of all being, to borrow the words of a smarter man than myself), I think your argument is akin to a parent killing their child; they certianly gave that child life and the child is merely an extension of their own good will. How can that be considered murder? I'd like to suggest that if God did indeed create us as individuals, then we are created as beings with a seperate will and right to exist. For God to arbitrarily take that away is akin to murder.
I thought it would be fun to briefly make a comment or two to Howard Dean/Dave Chappelle/Armchair Theologian in regards to their last posts. Again, I'll remind folks that there are many anonymous writers out there, but only one Cynical in Saskatchewan. Please don't mix me up with the other fine folks chiming in here; any blubbering nonsense is likely mine, while any wisdom is likely an intellectual other.
Self-deprication aside, I'd like to make a few quick, More Cowbell, points:
1. Despite the Freudian brilliance of Armchair Theologian's recent psychoanalysis, I have not been badly burnt by a Christian in the past (psychology, Master's Seminary style?). Believe it or not, I am a committed and full-fledged Christian. I go to a church regularly and am even a memember there. I love Jesus. And America too. Crazy about Elvis.
2. While I didn't really hint at it in my discussion of the gay parade, I am indeed quite fine with homosexuality. No, I am not gay (but thank you for asking); this is typically the first question that comes up when evangelicals hear that someone is pro-gay. And yes, I am a Christian (see point 1). And yes, it is possible to be both at the same time. Really.
3. I clearly interpret the Bible differently then some people who post on this blog. I'm okay with that. I'd like to suggest that my comments still fall under the rather broad banner of orthodoxy. For example, I would rather suppose that the Israelites invoked the name of Yahweh as a poor justification for the conquest of Canaan; the alternative is that God invoked a genocide. Now, I know, I know, I can hear you already saying "Why do YOU think YOU'RE smarter than God!?! Huh?! Tell me tough guy! How much do you think I can bench-press!?!", but the reality is that if we took every credo and justification from every sacred text, we'd be in big trouble. I don't think God wants to take credit for the Crusades, Holocaust, 100 Year War or any other tragedy.
4. Last point, and I regret even bringing this up, but modern historical criticism links the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah to cultural hospitality rules and not to sexual morality. Was Lot acting morally when he offered up his daughters for rape to the crowd? Or perhaps, because they are Lot's possessions (just like we're God's!), they can't ask that sort of question and he wouldn't be breaking any law.... but I digress.
Cheers!
Lord knows I'm going to catch some flack for this post. Pray for me...
Cynical in Saskatchewan.
1:29 PM
First a question:
Q: When you said "Israelite wars", did you mean the modern or biblical campaigns?
Now a point form rebuttal:
* God's taking of life is akin to a parent ending the life of their child? *
Uh, not at all. God CREATES and SUSTAINS life from moment to moment, and parents do not. Though I came from my mother's womb, she did not and does not give me life. Life, even in the womb, is created and sustained by God.
Job comments on this in Job 31:15 and the Psalmist explicitly talks about this ins Psalm 139:13 when he says "For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb". My mom didn't make me. God did. If my mom kills me, she's committing murder. My life is not hers to take.
And as for your 4 points:
1. Good. Glad you've never been hurt and that you love Elvis. Quoting Tom Petty cements you firmly in the bounds of orthodoxy.
2. This is either a blatant contradiction with point 1 or you misunderstand what characterizes a Christian.
The Bible is utterly clear on the whole "homosexuality = sin" thing. I mean, between Leviticus 18:22 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, it's tough to escape.
And, Christians cannot live in sin. 1 John 1:6-7 make that clear, as well as Romans 6:11-14 (among MANY more passages in the Bible). God is holy and expects holiness from his people.
If Homosexuality is sin and Christians cannot live in sin, you cannot be pro-sin and pro-Christ. You've either got to redefine one or both.
3. On what grounds do you think Israel invoked the name of Yahweh? I'm guessing you flat out reject the historicity of Genesis? And how do you interpret the Bible, if not using rules of language? Do you follow some sort of allegorical method, or do you reject the propositional nature of the scripture, or something else?
4. Modern historical criticism? No. That's a categorical falsehood. Modern LIBERAL historical criticism, that rejects the divine nature and authorship (not to mention every other reformational doctrine of scripture) thinks that Sodom and Gomorrah, and that's not even a clear consensus. But why do I care what a bunch of pagan Old Testament scholars think about the Old Testament? Since when does having a PhD mean you understand the Bible? I mean, come on! In Genesis 19:5, the crowd of MEN calls to Lot:
""Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
How can you think that's NOT talking about homosexual sex? You need a PhD in Semetic languages and a deconstructionist philosophy of language. Admittedly, homosexual rape isn't showing "good hospitality", but the issue of "being inhospitalable" wasn't the main problem Sodom. I'd LOVE to see the exegesis that you get that position from!
Good question about Lot's daughters though. I'll check into that cause I don't really have an answer that satisfies myself off the top. I'll get back to you.
8:51 PM
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